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I have to start all over

agrajag

Member
My account got blown away yesteray. From $1500+ to $0 in 24 hours. I'm still in shock.

It's my own fault, as I was employing a bot (forex hacked) that uses a martingale strategy, but for a month the returns had been excellent. I was aware of the dangers of a trending market, but I thought I could weather any nasty swings.

Take a look at the cable chart for the past week. Yeah, it killed my account.

I have to reflect on what I've done and what I've learned. One thing for sure is that while I still think bots have their place, I will certainly never again use one that does not employ stops.

My question to this forum is, what's the best way to rebuild my account from here? Funds are limited, and I really don't want to deposit more than $200 to start. I'm aware that manual systems are inherently better than automated ones, but I work full time and it would be difficult (and likely dangerous) for me to try to manually trade, unless they were longer term trades.

I'm really looking for some advice here from people who have been there and done that. I know most traders blow their account at least once, but I arrogantly thought I could dodge that particular bullet. I was wrong.
 

fscrp

Member
Before you risk another dollar, demo trade your system(s) with a starting balance the same as what you plan to do live. My thought is if you can double it, you will be ready to risk real money again. Put me in the "done that" column. I am still in demo mode and still have the nasty habit of jumping into a trade without really checking things out first.
 

agrajag

Member
Thanks for the advice. At the moment it's really hard to think about trading as I'm a little emotionally bruised :eek:

But yes, when I settle on a system I'll definitely demo it for a while first. Can you shed a little light on what you did to start over?
 

grood

Member
$200, even $1500 seems quite too small in case of a standard account where you can trade 0.1 lots only. With hacked and 0.01 lots even $1000-2000 is too small because of martingale.

I'm running hacked on a live account with $500 and 0.01 lots with monitoring a couple of times a day, it went up to $900, then down to $550 again (because the ff news filter was not working, luckily i was able to manually close the losers before blowup). So: Martingale/Grid is never "run and forget" :)

You could also try cable run, it made nice profits for me. Always use a conservative lot size, backtest, demo test, then go live.

Another idea: you could find a "cent" account, where trades are translated to 0.001 or even 0.0001 lots. Here you can even run hacked without blowing up your account easily :)
 

agrajag

Member
Thanks Grood. I'm running a micro account on Alpari UK (0.01 lots = 10 cents), but FH eventually ran the lot size up and cable never stopped climbing.

I like Alpari but I'll look elsewhere if it'll help me build my account back up again. I'm interested in hearing from others here: what would you do if you had to start all over again?
 

radicaltour

Moderator
VIP Member
i'm sorry to hear your story, agrajag. I'm sure many of us have gone through similar situation.
When bad things happen like this, i always do my best to look at the positive instead of dwelling on the negatives.
I think every great trader has blown an account. So when you blow an account, you are now actually closer to being a successful trader.
Your next step may not even be to re-strategize. But maybe just need to tweek the money management part.
Just like in trading, once you lose a few consecutive trades, you toss out your system....but the very next trade may have gained back all the losses.
Hence, we need to stay strong and move forward in a consistent manner. I believe this is a risky business that we are in. So losses must be accepted and your lost could be considered up front cost of doing business. I opened up a retail business a few years ago and spent $100,000 on it...then i closed it after 3 years with no gain.
Now put that into perspective, our business cost in Forex is a lot smaller if you consider we lose $2000 - $3000 for valuable experience and education...that will someday lead to much greater rewards. :)
 

agrajag

Member
Fantastic post radicaltour. And you're right - taking this hit has really made me reflect on how I was trading with rose coloured glasses. Things were going well, so how could things possibly go bad? A lesson painfully learned.

So now I'm demoing a few different bots for a month or so to see what works for me. As I said earlier, I'd love to hear from anyone else who blew their account and then clawed their way back. I think any lessons they could share would benefit all of us here.
 

grood

Member
Well for me this is is the same as money management for a single trading strategy, you can call it just another abstraction layer of mm.

If you trade manually, a rule of thumb is risking 2-3% of your account for a single trade. Apply some rule like that to EA trading, meaning: exactly know what you are putting on risk, and be happy to lose it. Never put everything in one account and one strategy. Better create multiple accounts, running multiple EA in case one of them blows your account. Or use EA that have a properly defined risk setting, so you know what you lose in worst case.

My hacked example: I backtested it and optimized its parameters (if I remember correctly) so it blew up a $500 account only one time in 2010 but, if survived, makes $2000.

So I'm willing to risk $500 to gain $2000. Withdraw $500 after account is doubled, so remainer is a free ride. Then withdraw again every $500, or let it grow a bit more. If account is blown, restart with $500.
 

diego

New member
hey agrajag
I know your feelings. Forex hacked has blown my account several times.
Allthough I tested it demoing for months.
Best settings were 0.01 GU / 31 / 45 / 1.53
After loosing a total of $5000 I came to the conclusion, that Martingale is not my style.
I think one of the most important things in trading life is to know your personal trading preference. Dont change to an strategie that doesnt fit your psychologie, only because someone made big $$.
(example: If you like to see your trades cosed every evening, then avoid long term strategies and EAs, allthough they make a lot of $$..... but they can have a lot of drawdown also)

Find your trading psychologie and after that you will find a good trading system ;)

wish you good luck
 

agrajag

Member
Thanks diego. This was my first (and last) time trading martingale, although I have to admit I was pleased with the initial performance. I don't mind longer term trades (up to a couple of days) as they tend to obey the charts a little better than scalps do, although it's probably just because I haven't done a lot of scalping myself.

I'm going to try a few different EA's that employ different strategies and see how they fare. It's going to be a long road back, but I hope not *too* long ;)
 
money

money

$100 or $10,000 It doesn't not matter. If you can't make a $100 account grow what make you think you can make a $1000.00 or a $10,000.00 grow.

I don't believe in demo account. I've learn more trying to get a $100.00 mini account to grow.

Have The Best Day Ever
Shark Motor
 

xard777

Member
$100 or $10,000 It doesn't not matter. If you can't make a $100 account grow what make you think you can make a $1000.00 or a $10,000.00 grow.

I don't believe in demo account. I've learn more trying to get a $100.00 mini account to grow.

Have The Best Day Ever
Shark Motor
I totally agree with sharkmotor, if you can't make money with a $20 account then throwing all sorts of money at it won't make a bit of difference.

Plus there is a great feeling turning $20 bucks into a $1000 - and forex is defo the way to do it - extremely low start up fees, no tax to pay on earnings, no paye to pay for staff, no staff wages, no sick days, no vat on property leasing and no insurance to pay out for and no massive advertising bills to pay out - in fact the best thing you can do is blow your account, better still blow the account twice - you will learn so much more.

I wish I traded forex 25 yrs ago - I would have saved a fortune.

All the best

Xard777
 

agrajag

Member
Thanks for the replies guys. Sharkmotor and xard777, I do agree that unless you're trading with real money it's hard to get a feel for real trading, as demo money doesn't really matter, no matter how much you tell yourself otherwise. Still, after coming off a huge hit I'm a little timid ;)

This would be a neat thread idea - if you were starting with $100 how would you turn it into $1000, and how long do you think it would take you? Would you use an EA (or three), or stick to manual only? Scalp or long term trading? I'd love to hear some more from everyone on what they would do in that situation!
 
agrajak,
the steps are simple:

1. Open a Demo-account with 1k or 10k (does not matter) and find
a strategy you like and fits to your schedule.

2. Double that Demo account.

3. Open a Cent-account at Forex4you or GoMarkets (called L-Plate account)
and fund it with 1 Dollar.
That equals 100 Dollar on a standard account.

Double that real money Cent-account.

4. Now you can add to your live account on Forex4you or GoMarkets-L-Plate as much as you like
and you will double that too if you use the same money-management and strategy you used to double your Demo and small Cent-account.

Trading on a real-money Cent-account with 1 Dollar up to 5 or 10 Dollars is not as dangerous as trading on a standard account with 100 Dollars or 1000 Dollars balance.

But it lets you feel the pressure of trading with real money better than trading a Demo-account and if you blow the account, only 1 Dollar is lost
and you can start all over.
My account got blown away yesteray. From $1500+ to $0 in 24 hours. I'm still in shock.
See ?
Would have been $15 on Forex4you micro-cent-account or GoMarkets-L-Plate-account.
You still would have $1485 to start again.
I am sorry for you and I have done it too. Lost several live-accounts until I discovered the Cent-accounts (and lost Cent-accounts too due to damned EAs).

There is a thread here in the forum about using a mixture of EAs on a Cent-account. I am not a fan of it because all EAs I used wiped out my live-accounts, but of course there are EAs which will produce 1 % profit in a month and with an equity of 10k they run save,
but who is satisfied with 1% monthly ?

I have stopped trading with EAs completely and I make 2 - 8 % daily with manual trading, but I am trading full time, so that is not for everybody.

There are at least 2 manual stragies I recommend.
They are meant for low timeframes but people report that they are excellent on higher TFs too and that would fit your schedule I think.


First method:
Freebie system
Code:
http://www.worldwide-invest.org/trading-systems-strategies/1966-free-profitable-system-excellent.html
Second method:
FXMatrix Pro
Code:
http://www.worldwide-invest.org/trading-systems-strategies/189-fxmatrixpro.html
 

wuwei98

New member
You can get some free books to read first. I suffered some similar situation.





Then do some paper trade.
free download: NinjaTrader 7.0.1000.7 Multi-broker Live + Static SuperDOM



You may contact the website directly::)
Skype: iii.gonch
 
F

ForexMike

On the other hand, I believe in demo accounts for the only reason, it's the only way to get to know the platform and feel comfortable with it before you start trading a live account. One should be able to jump in and out of trades with speed and confidence. Every split second counts when doing an action regarding trading and practice is the best way to accomplish this.

I hope this makes sense.
 

Onbongo

Member
$100 or $10,000 It doesn't not matter. If you can't make a $100 account grow what make you think you can make a $1000.00 or a $10,000.00 grow.

I don't believe in demo account. I've learn more trying to get a $100.00 mini account to grow.

Have The Best Day Ever
SharkMotor
I have to completely agree with you there SharkMotor, $100 is what I recommend anyone to start trading Forex with. Doubling a $100 account requires time, skill, discipline & patience which you must master if you want to succeed in Forex. If you can't double a $100 account in less than a month, using good MM & low risk then you are not ready to be trading a $1,000 let alone a $5/10,000+ account. You simply don't have the skills in my opinion. Double at least 4 x $100 accounts each time taking out your $100 profit whilst sticking to your rules and using low risk and then you may be ready to trade larger positions sizes using the full $500. Double that and now you have a decent amount to trade with while you continue to learn, and importantly have taken the time (5-6 months live trading) to develop the skills, discipline and most importantly patience to perhaps succeed longer term as a full-time forex trader. And you haven't risked to much of your hard earned capital for the education. I wouldn't spend too much time on Demo personally. Just enough to master your strategy and familiarize yourself with the platform.

Onbongo
 

babys007

New member
Take my advice very seriously....DO NOT EVER TRADE MARTINGALE EA DURING THE US SESSION...Around 8 AM to 2 PM....I am using Custom Made Martingale EA for the last 5 months and I have survived intense volatility session like the end of Jan 23-28....Don't trade CHF, GBP, JPY because they can kill with big news...
 
Take my advice very seriously....DO NOT EVER TRADE MARTINGALE EA DURING THE US SESSION...Around 8 AM to 2 PM....I am using Custom Made Martingale EA for the last 5 months and I have survived intense volatility session like the end of Jan 23-28....Don't trade CHF, GBP, JPY because they can kill with big news...
EAs are not substitute of manual trading. I wonder how can you handover your hard earned money to a robot? there are so many trading systems in this forum which don't require so much time and you don't need to monitor your trades all the time. please give a good look at "set and forget" trading systems, the one i know is from James De Wett. you can find many more. but don't go after EAs they don't work. Yes they don't work.
all the successfull traders you'll come across trade manually.
Please find a system which need less attension and have better RR and start over.
Thanks
Jawad
 
To all... please watch these video's 1-9.... mm is everything... I will not go into detail about martingale and my experience... but if you pay attn. to what larry say's... I have experienced the same... in other words, you have a "great strategy" works great for a long time, then wammo!!! bye bye gains! mm is everthing. Martingale is for suckers... and I have been a sucker... I suggest you go to fx-tsd and search fxIgor thread under success stories... his experience in trading is similar to mine... only my family did not leave me. My favorite book in the universe is Edwin Lefevre's book on Jesse Livermore "Reminences of a stock operator". Livermore, was incredible BUT he was like everyone else... we have to protect ourselves from ourselves... He lost his fortune twice. The second time, he blew his brains out. So learn from your mistakes and others...



Kind regards,

TCT
 

zug007

Member
there are so many trading systems in this forum which don't require so much time and you don't need to monitor your trades all the time. please give a good look at "set and forget" trading systems, the one i know is from James De Wett.
Jawad
I generally agree with your advice. Regarding James De Wett and his "set and forget systems" ( Game Maker and RAID ) do NOT WORK in my (back-tested) opinion. I have backtested these systems between 2002 and 2010 and I would not go anywhere near these systems. But as jawadjee85 said: have a good look at these systems.

In my opinion you should not assume a system works because you have paid x-amount of $$$ or because someone said they work. Before you start any trading of a new system you have to test it yourself with as much data as you can get. One month or one year alone is just not good enough.
 
you REALLY need to read/listen to "Trading In The Zone" by Mark Douglas, and understand the traders mindset - especially the information regarding the 'casino' approach and 'trading your edge' as at the end of the day that's all we are doing - unfortunately the emotional bruising you're feeling right now betrays your experience as a trader, Forex Hacked is not a strategy or an edge, it's a gamble - crappy EA's like Toms EA, or Cable/Indo Run will always kill an account - STAY AWAY from EA's with no Stoploss or decent Risk Reward, i.e. FAP Turbo is approx 7:1 R:R, if you showed that kind of R:R to a professional trader they would laugh you out of the room! Probability dictates that every martingale strategy will fail eventually, it is then a case of risk versus reward - and even if you can afford to 'buy the grid' in a martingale strategy the returns are so low you may as well buy gilts or bonds. You need to find 'your edge' and trade it enough times that probability makes it profitable - this is what casinos do, and they don't go bust or blow their accounts very often! Hope this helps
 

Zzoom

New member
Livermore, was incredible BUT he was like everyone else... we have to protect ourselves from ourselves... He lost his fortune twice. The second time, he blew his brains out. So learn from your mistakes and others...
Erm... he went broke many times... and had $5 million in the bank when he died....
 
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